Live Recruiting — Live With the Best Employees.

DMS Talk transcript for reading.

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Welcome & Topic of the Evening

Hello and good evening from our beautiful studio to the fourth DMS Talk, to which I would like to extend a very warm welcome. Our topic today is live recruiting for companies – authentic employer branding. We’re going to try it ourselves today, together with some guests whom I may briefly introduce and welcome now.

Guests & Moderator

Here with me is Mag. Heike Haring‑Latzke, Senior Strategic Account Manager at epunkt. Hello!
And Mag. Rainer Will, Managing Director of the Austrian Retail Association.
My name is Oliver Nitz. I’m with Digitale Medien Systeme, and I have the pleasure of moderating today’s DMS Talk.

How the Show Works (Chat, Interaction, Links)

Information about the flow – today a bit about what you can also see:
The show itself is interactive. You can chat, you can ask questions. To do so, please click at the bottom left of the screen, give yourself a name, choose a nickname, and join in. Just ask questions – they’ll be delivered live into the studio. Our team behind the screen will be happy to answer these questions, perhaps also afterwards, simply in our joint round of discussion.

Clickable Logos & Job CTA (“Astronaut”)

On the screen you can see several logos – obviously from epunkt, the Retail Association, and also from us, DMS – Digitale Medien Systeme. You can click on them to find a bit more information about our companies – logically, the homepages of the websites – and below that (which I’ll get into a bit more later – and we together as well), you’ll find an astronaut. That leads to a job posting – that’s also part of today’s topic.

Schedule & Call to Participate

We’ve planned to run this until 6:00 p.m. today here; so around 6:00 p.m. we will certainly be finished. And yes, in any case I’m looking forward to active participation. Please feel free to ask questions. We’ll try to answer them.

Context: Why Video for Recruiting?

What is today about? It’s about streaming and video and carrying that over to the topic of recruiting – what it can be used for. Perhaps to establish a bit of context:

Influencers have been living the video topic for quite some time. We also see Insta stories, now semi‑professionally produced – in large quantities. We have live shopping, which is taking off in China – 10% of e‑commerce sales in China are already generated through live shows. Explainer and unboxing videos are a delight – especially for gadget fans who are interested in what a new product looks like. We do yoga classes, Peloton, and much more – today also via video. Video conferences have become commonplace for most people – at the latest since the first lockdown.

Unfortunately – to be honest, briefly – we are used to videos: messy rooms and also children and dogs walking through the frame – and that, of course, also makes the whole thing a bit more authentic and nicer. Hence our line of thought: This can be an interesting topic for employers looking for new talent – to present themselves in a very authentic and credible way in front of the screen. Away from highly polished image videos, bringing in more credibility and presenting yourself – better than an advertisement. That’s what we’re about today.

Handover to Heike Haring‑Latzke (epunkt)

And with me – once again, I’m happy to welcome Heike. Heike, I’m looking forward to hearing from you about what you do, what you do at your company, and what brought you here.

Gladly. Thank you for the invitation. Gladly. Um, yes: I’ve now been at epunkt for four and a half years and work there in Strategic Account Management and Strategic Project Management. And we are market leader in recruiting – and we’ve been doing that for 20 years. We’ve been doing it for a very long time and very gladly and successfully.

So: In 2019 we had 10,700 positions; 2020 we got off lightly, because we are very strong in IT recruiting. And now, 2021, we have a very special situation: We started at the beginning of the year with 650 open positions and are now at 1,100 open positions. That means: a 70% increase within a short time. Um, yes – really. And these are all positions … Many clients of ours told us: “If you take on several good software developer jobs or anything …” Those too – we fill those as well. And that means: We, as an intermediary between candidates and clients, now face a very special situation.

Labor Market 2021: Demand, Demographics, Baby Boomers

On the one hand, due to the pandemic and all the digitalization, because of this hype, all companies are looking for IT experts or IT security experts – really across the board. On the other hand – or additionally on the client side – we have the issue that large companies still have many baby boomers, who will soon be retiring. That means we will immediately have many departures into retirement and will lose knowledge, and of course they are already looking from behind for new talent to close this gap again – and where knowledge transfer can be established.

On the other hand, the candidates who now, simply demographically, are becoming fewer, and there are – so too few are coming out of education who then enter the market. And they know exactly their value, and they know what they want. And the market has simply turned. We have very strong demand for candidates, for talents, and fewer on the other side. And as is the case – and I’m totally happy about this – we simply say: You have to develop further. You have to go new ways in recruiting. Placing a job ad and posting it and hoping that some people apply – and even the right ones – is actually … yes, basically doesn’t exist.

Employer‑Telling: Why Video “Beats” Text

And that’s why we went new ways. And – as you said – we found out: Of course, video beats text. And when we think of job postings now … We did Employer‑Telling videos on the blog – and on the video, the person mainly involved was … She’s also sitting here now and will be happy to tell more about these Employer‑Telling videos.

Yes, thanks for coming. We also have a clip for that – which we will briefly show later.

Handover to Rainer Will (Retail Association): Recruiting Apprentices in Retail

Rainer, the topic of apprentice recruitment is a big one – particularly in retail. Perhaps briefly about your role and what you do – and I think the challenges are relatively similar: IT staff are being sought – and apprentices, yes.

Many thanks from my side as well for the invitation. In retail, of course, the heart – the retail’s own property – is the employee. Because in the end, the way we treat each other also determines what retail looks like – whether digital or physical, in advice or in other areas of the process.

The Retail Association has been active for 100 years as the spokesperson and partner of retail. We are a modern ecosystem precisely to support our companies – and a major focus of our sector is, of course, our HR division, where very, very many decision‑makers from HR come together and exchange views on all the latest developments – of course also on all collective bargaining framework conditions, but right up to new job profiles in retail that are needed. Because the 600,000 employees in retail are not a given; we want to make this sector future‑proof – namely with the employees.

New Professional Models: E‑Commerce Apprenticeship & “Fachwirt”

We in retail also have to move. And therefore, for example, we campaigned very early on – the first organizational OK in Austria – for there to be an e‑commerce apprentice. The e‑commerce clerk (female/male) was then introduced two years ago. And that is just as important for us. Because with us you can reach leadership positions part‑time, with us you can also study on the side and cover care situations and still climb the career ladder. Many know the former REWE boss Frank Hensel – he started as an apprentice and made it to Chairman of the Board.

Now we have a different time, the digital era. And therefore – starting from the e‑commerce apprenticeship – new professional models are needed so that the sector remains attractive. The latest thing we have recently been able to announce is that, together with Management Center Innsbruck and FH Technikum, we will offer the E‑Commerce Fachwirt training. This offers the opportunity to work in retail alongside your studies. That means: The company does not lose the great employees, and at the same time training up to a Bachelor’s degree is professionally enabled.

That is the situation, and a change has occurred, so that – it’s simply important that companies open up. This employer branding topic is so important because it’s simply new. And we must become more transparent. That means: Not only must the applicant open up, but the company just as much. Because we also want to know who we are dealing with, what the culture looks like. Aside from the financial side, a major aspect of daily life is who you work with professionally. And that should not be a blind date.

Matching Instead of a Text Desert: How Video Helps

Yes, and that makes sense. Demand is very high, supply is ever smaller in terms of the people looking for the jobs. You just said: The job posting per se is actually comparable – that is, it is very text‑based. It’s hardly distinguishable anymore, except that a company perhaps adds a logo.

The important role is matchmaking – that’s what you actually said: so also to exclude the wrong candidates beforehand, perhaps. How would you see it if I now take the path and convey something via video? As mentioned, you’ve already tried it once. Perhaps a bit about the experiences with it: How is it received by those who watch it? Do you already have initial feedback?

Heike: Candidate Reactions & a Best‑of Clip

So well, because – as you say – there are so many postings that are all similar. If I’m a developer now and enter “Java” on karriere.at and “Vienna”, then I’ll have 700 hits, and everyone says they are innovative. Everyone is a growth company, the team is committed – and I can believe that or not.

And that’s why – if you make it possible – as we do with our videos – and give candidates this added value very early in the recruiting process by showing: Who is my manager? Who will I be working with, because I can get to know my team? What are my development opportunities? And what is the purpose of the role? Why is the position being sought, and how is my contribution to this company’s success – which is very important precisely for Generation Y (and that’s the large number of experts now on the market).

Exactly – then you go to the interview, and you can watch that in advance. And likewise, you can say: You attract the right candidates – and they watch it and you get a feeling. And he says: Yes, I’d like to talk to that person, or I’ll go there – when you have that feeling. And we have received great feedback from candidates.

And you have to say: They’re used to it. They like it as well. They often don’t read these boring long postings that are all the same, but watch a 60‑second video and say: Yes, that’s an idea.

You have – you also brought us something – cut together specially from your experience: You have, for a job posting that you can also view (by clicking on the astronaut), a Java developer job posting with the corresponding video attached. And then we thought it would be good to bring something beyond that – namely the way you did it: that is, the part that people always love to watch at the end of a cinema film – a bit of behind the scenes. And we’d like to briefly show that now and let you take a look.

How we … Us … Out … Please. Nowadays. And? We did that well … and us still … Yes. Yes. Super. Yes, thank you. Super.

Authenticity Instead of Gloss: Nerves Are Okay

I really like it for one main reason. First, because there’s a lot of laughter – it may and must also be present at work. And second: I like it because that was an employer – or a department head – who introduced himself there in front of the camera. You can see a bit of the nervousness – and that’s very important to us.

First: We really want to show the hiring managers, i.e., those leaders, authentically. We – as you said – no loveless employer‑branding videos, but really Employer‑Telling instead of branding. And what’s simply important is: We’ve made 200 videos; they themselves around 100. That there is a relaxed atmosphere on set, because the hiring managers – they are often IT leaders, or tax consultants, or something else – they are not used to speaking into the camera now. But they also – they know what the market situation is like. And we keep saying it and go that extra mile for the candidate and say: Yes, I’ll speak now, I’ll do this now – and together with us we really try to make it relaxed. What should emerge, really, is an authentic leader.

How do they feel in front of the camera? Is the nervousness very high, or …? – At the beginning, yes. And we often have the topic – that is: we have managing directors in front of the camera – or experience – or they say: You know what? – or you know? – It’s easier if I speak in front of 300 people in a talk than if I now have to answer four questions in 90 seconds into a camera and say that in a totally focused way. And we simply say: We’ll shoot as often as we want – as you need – and then that’s fine.

But I think fundamentally: This authenticity, that is the key for the candidates – and that’s what everyone wants.

Retail: Transparency Pays Off (Rainer Will)

Purely from the retail perspective, the companies are already – I would say they are on the way, but not there yet. For us, it is a new innovation – bluntly speaking – which, however, ultimately, also due to the pressure of social media, is moving ever more to the center.

You can see how real time plays such a strong role in every area as never before. And TikTok is, for example, currently leading in the social media sector – but also Instagram, Facebook. And so it’s only logical that companies – apart from the hard facts like remuneration, structure, products, workplace situation – also bring in these soft skills, this transparency – into which culture one is, as it were, “marrying into.” And that is crucial, because one not only wants to identify with the company, but also with the superior, with the team above all. And there is hardly anything more authentic than the immediate co‑workers who then talk about what the job itself will look like. And in addition, you can then imagine whether these are personalities with whom you also like to spend your free time. Then, of course, it’s a win‑win, so that in the optimal case – through this transparent new development – the job becomes a calling, because you simply feel comfortable, and thus it’s no longer work, but also partly pleasure.

In retail we absolutely must take this path. Because we are currently looking for 20,000 jobs in retail, 15,000 in wholesale – 5,000 … That is, of course, the breadth. You can – from hands‑on in retail to a programmer job in e‑commerce – aim for everything. And we also very strongly perceive the factor of mobility. For example, with large grocery retailers we had to locate dedicated e‑commerce developer teams in the inner city, because you already have to offer many, many advantages there – also in public space, in order to win the best talent. And there are simply multiple factors that are decisive. I am convinced that this new path of live recruiting, employer branding, and this transparent form in which employers present themselves will reduce turnover in the long term.

Viewer Question: “That’s Nothing New … and TikTok?”

Okay, we’ve just received a question – also from Ricardo: “I thought the video was good, but that’s nothing new. These image videos have been around for a long time. How are videos that are made with a phone received? I’m thinking TikTok. Have you gained experience with that?”

We actually thought about that. We first considered whether to do it with a phone. There are, after all, software solutions, you can do that quickly. So … Um – we then deliberately decided against it and said: We will now do it with a camera and lights – a bit more professional. Um – the question is which target group you want to reach. TikTok – yes, and we have already seen some companies that do that. If we really address Generation Z now – i.e., the very young who are now entering the market, where apprentices may indeed be interesting – for our area, where it’s mainly about experts, etc., we probably wouldn’t reach the target group there.

But – and that’s what we say – A: You have to be where the applicants are. And of course we’re thinking further; you can’t get around TikTok – or whatever they’re called. So you definitely have to look at that. And this is now the first step. But what we are very clear about is really: You need courage, and keep at it, and keep developing – and always look at live recruiting, try it out. Because – I can well imagine – that for certain formats it can be an exciting topic.

Recommendation: Test, Professional Setup & Moderation

It would also be my recommendation to try it out accordingly – simply to test what works – at the end of the day. And to dare to approach it – and simply do it. Only there, at that point, can you then learn. You can’t predict that either.

Our experience – now with DMS involved and from my personal perspective in marketing, also for retail – is simply: A professional production is not contrary to this. I can then, of course, use it as a distribution channel accordingly. TikTok – perhaps not necessarily that it fits together – but professionalism then still prevails. What’s important is that it doesn’t become too stiff – actually.

Therefore – speaking of which: We also prepared a look behind the scenes, so that you can simply see what’s actually going on. We put in a lot of effort, have set up a very large studio, and … Thanks, Laura – I’ve got a phone. This is a streaming app that we then installed on the phone – you can see it nicely in the picture: “Hello!” – and then you can also see very well: There are many more people involved who bring this entire show to life here.

And that’s of course a great thing. It takes quite some effort. And, as I said, we are convinced that the professional setup does make a lot of sense. Of course, you can also do it smaller – as just shown. Either way – the advice is always: definitely try it out. That can be in a small setup – or here in a large studio with lights and everything. Either way, it gives us a lot of joy.

Where Live Recruiting Makes Sense (Department, Company, Position?)

From your point of view – a live recruiting video: where would that make sense? Do you do it more at the department level, or then right away for the whole company? Or do I go down to the position level? What would make sense somehow?

Rainer: Depends on the role you want to advertise. And quite fundamentally – yes – on the company itself. Because, of course, we have to point out: For some companies that operate rather stiffly and intransparently – because they simply don’t want to shed light on things at all – for a wide variety of reasons – it may be the wrong format. But broadly speaking, from my point of view, it is the format – not only with a future, but with an added value in the present.

And if you’re looking for an expert – in a smaller team – there’s nothing better in my view than if the new co‑workers then also make this video. But, of course, it is always exciting: What does the superior look like – in terms of behavior, culture – and also the immediate co‑workers, the immediate contacts. Therefore, it is probably both to some extent – just as both are decisive for a harmonious, long‑term working relationship.

And therefore there are always the diverse perspectives in many areas. When it comes to interviews, it is important to us – and especially to me in this role – that as many employees as possible get to know the new people – even before the decision is made. Because it’s always said: A drop of oil in the water tips the water – and that now applies in both directions. And therefore, ideally, you get to know many facets and hierarchy levels of the company, so that you can then make a well‑founded decision. The applicants must be worth it. Therefore, you can also calmly accept more effort, because leaders always have a lot to do. But the most important thing is that they also select the right employees – and also apply themselves.

Heike: How do you think about it? Since very many companies will have the situation in the future that they struggle to find the right employees – I think it always makes sense for individual positions. I do see it a bit … yes, concerning, but still – it’s a lot of effort. You have great equipment, etc. – whether in terms of cost and effort it’s simply too much. But – especially when I now think of some of our clients who say: “We … we have ten people” – or “We have departments where we want to fill various roles from to.” I think it can be very exciting if you have the hiring manager, the department head – or someone from the team – who then talk – and where you can then ask them questions interactively. And then – in this exchange – immediately take the next step. Because that’s what’s important, what we always say: You can find the right candidates, but then it has to continue at the back. It has to go quickly. And that’s a possibility – they write something in, he answers it – and can then immediately say: “Okay – then that’s the best …” I do wonder – now it comes to apprentices – or so – where our Generation 16 – who are used to communicating exactly like this – whether that would be an exciting possibility, via multipliers, via schools, etc., to say: You’re today in front of the screen, and then you have apprentice trainers, have apprentices who have already gone through it – who tell a bit, etc. So – I think you can try that – and then you have the learnings – and then you can deploy this tool ever more targetedly.

Rainer: So with apprentices I also see it as very exciting, because that’s exactly the target group that’s on social – who receive information exactly this way. We also know: The consumer and the person per se has changed. We skip even exciting videos under a minute and swipe on. Therefore – of course – also something with a direct approach, without talking at length, and immediately transporting more emotions/images – and thus also attracting attention. And that is especially important with the young target group. And there are apprentices from A to Z – in the most exciting areas – where you deal with fruit and vegetables and food – to the digital topics. And that’s exactly where you can start.

Comment from the Chat (Mike): A Holistic View

Mike has just written: In addition to videos and photos and website, the holistic view is important. Young people need adapted content – whether moving images, type, statement, corporate culture, insights, evaluation. New Work means New Employer – a bit supportive, actually as well. (Unless I misunderstood Mike now – but I don’t think so. At least I hope not.)

Live or On‑Demand? – And Examples

You provided the video on demand. Now I won’t – because we briefly discussed it beforehand – grill you about the views, because the client didn’t want that. What would be your assessment – what works better? Live or on‑demand? Or can you actually not separate them from each other?

Rainer: Perhaps both. Live – I stick with it – is more exciting, because digital live formats simply work well and will become even stronger in the future. But – why not then also make it available on demand? People – many are used to that: I get the information at any time and wherever I am – and with battery then as well, etc., and when they can read that … So – I can well imagine that.

And from the companies’ point of view, it can also be answered that way: A live session is always exciting, because of course something can happen. It tempts, it tingles. And at the same time, you have to be where the applicant is – the potential one. And above all: You have to understand that life worlds have changed a lot. Not everyone has time at any time, but then, when people have the opportunity to retrieve something. That’s when it makes sense. Therefore, it is also a both‑and – especially when, from the employer’s point of view, you have a process running that at some point also has to be concluded. Also so – that you light this beacon live and then run it on demand – at least perhaps for the duration of the posting of the position.

Oliver: Our experience in live shopping – retail – coming out of the lockdowns – that was a development – is that live shopping is being offered – especially by fashion brands, now also cosmetics, in actually all markets of the world by now. And the experience there is that almost 50% of the revenue from live shopping still runs via the on‑demand show afterwards. That means: It’s roughly 50/50 in viewers/participants who then view the content there – afterwards. – Yes, then another 50% of revenue afterwards – I understand. Because there are, of course, impulse buyers and those who want to reflect again – look at the bank account, consult with trusted people in their environment – and then decide.

Q&A: How Many Live Questions? Are There Limits? Tech & Costs

White Place asks a question: “For how many people in the dialogue could the live session with questions be meaningfully designed? Are there technical limitations – or can it also be hundreds of interested people?” – So: Since we also provide the software here through which the questions come in, there are no technical limitations. So – at some point the questions naturally roll through … The limitation is rather personnel in nature: How many people want and are able to answer? Because we do not have artificial intelligence running in the background that could then do this automatically.

Thomas H. asks: “How much does a setup of the type just shown cost? Rough from‑to indications/ballpark? Thanks.” – Yes, I’ll also take that up again as a summary – we’ll get to it in a moment. A setup of this size – with this many people and also including studio rental and the electricity we need here – for the beautiful, abundant light – you can calculate it like this: We’re at about €8,000, you could say – roughly, including the deployment of the whole team. It can of course also be much smaller – as I said, via the phone. You can also rent cameras or then buy them accordingly, find your own setup with a control room. That can then be done for €2,000 – but then not, for example, with our software included. But I’ll come back to that in a moment – in the summary. As I said: The range is roughly €2–3,000 up to €8–10,000 if you want to go all out – as we can do here, because we have all the infrastructure and we enjoy it so much. Then that’s roughly a feel.

Live Involvement of Applicants (Career Events & Games)

How can you involve applicants in live recruiting? – Ricardo: “I’m thinking of career events with live insights and games.” – Yes, you can definitely do that. You can, of course, also always bring someone in – or we – do a kind of Teams/Zoom/whatever meeting – with multiple participants – and then involve them accordingly. That is technically possible. In truth, it’s always about two things: A) Can I bring in the stream from the people who are outside – somewhere in Europe participating? And do I have a return channel – such as the chat and also our discussion round here?

Summary: Learnings & Practical Tips

Yes, to summarize: We have now learned that live streaming for recruiting could work. You have had very good experiences with Employer‑Telling itself and are expanding that further. Including the possibilities for interaction, that is, of course, a fundamentally great thing.

We have even found – by now also from retail, coming from working with retail partners – that many companies are now building video studios to produce things there themselves – because demand for video is rising accordingly and you can better differentiate yourself through it.

Today we understood that the target group – ranging from very specific job postings, where it can be very, very important to communicate authentically and credibly – could play an important role for that; just as much, if I want to make it more efficient – for an entire department, if I’m advertising multiple positions there, to convey that.

Examples/ideas where you should start: So Employer‑Telling – one more video – mentioned again: Feel free to take a look at that.

Small, medium, and large format – as just mentioned – so in the range from €2,000 for your own equipment (“I’ll do everything myself”) up to €8,000 you can design such a show, a live stream, the live event.

What’s important here – also from our experience, and I don’t know how it is for you – also in your work – is that moderation plays an important role. I have found that guests like to come and are also significantly more relaxed than when you simply put a person in front of the camera and say: “Now please say something – with the microphone.” Although – you said it – we always have test sessions. Yes – and we have a good atmosphere on set, of course – and we take care of them as well. But – I think – we mean our customers who drink before they do the show … (laughs)

Practical Call & Channel Fit (Don’t Be Afraid to Try)

And – once again for everyone in front of the screen: Try it out – just do it. There’s not much you can do wrong. You won’t get beaten up for it – except by, let’s say, old hands who are afraid for the brand. You can, of course, talk to them beforehand – and get them on board – or, if necessary, afterwards. But – seriously – try it out. Try it out depending on the channel: What works there? What’s “in” there? It doesn’t have to be a forced dance routine for TikTok, but in some context it should then perhaps also take place on the channel accordingly – and then just dare to do it.

Yes, we are service providers in this environment – feel free to ask us – and we can also gladly, not only now, but also later – bring the questions back into the round and will always be happy to answer them as well. So – from Ricardo, etc. – in text. Cheers!

KPI Question: “How Much More Often” Filled – With Video?

Sven asks: “Can you say by how much more often jobs with postings including an Employer‑Telling video are filled – compared with text‑only postings?” – Heike: We have – exactly – again at epunkt. We are evaluating that right now – therefore, we are currently in the process of setting that up. Um – it is, of course, our thesis that we say: If you have 100 open positions – with a video – you fill more of them than if you don’t have one. I should get the exact results at the beginning of next year. But from the feeling, it is already the case that we fill more, because the access – like it used to be: I was in recruiting myself for a long time – that’s also good – I just have to somehow get the candidate to the company – and then they get to know each other personally. And I know – I have the feeling – that they fit together. And here I can tell it and I can speak confidently – and say: “Hey, I’ve known the client for a long time – please go there.”

And now we show the video and we introduce the hiring managers, and then, of course, that is one fewer hurdle, for him to say: “Yes, I’ll go there.” And that is the big goal for us – namely this conversion rate from: “We approach candidates for a position – because we think they fit” – and the candidate says: “Yes, feel free to send it on, I’d be happy if you could have a conversation with them” – that is a huge win for us, because then it often works – and the client is also happy – and the client is happy – everyone is happy. – Very good, super!

Finale: Recording, Publication & Thanks

Do we have any more questions? – No more questions. – Great. I think then we’re already coming to the end for today – for the fourth DMS Talk. And we have a recording – we are producing a recording of today’s talk, and will put it online on the website.

To all participants today – first of all, many thanks for your time, for your interest, for the questions. To you – a very heartfelt thank‑you for coming by and dropping in and for the short discussion.
And – as mentioned – the video can be found, also through various channels, also with our association and with our companies – we’ll put it online. And those interested – always feel free to ask questions and write – or also call.
Then I say thank you very much! – Many thanks to both of you – you’re very welcome – and to everyone in front of the screens, a wonderful evening! Thank you!

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